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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 608 for the 7th of June

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2020 Richard Saunders coming to you from

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Sydney Australia now I'm not having a

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lazy afternoon I'm having a busy morning

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putting together the skeptic zone and

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what a show we have for you this week

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we're gonna kick off with an interview

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and the dear old friend of mine Loretta

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Marin also known as the jelly bean lady

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why is she known as the jelly bean lady

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well for years she's been campaigning

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against the quackery the absurdity the

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ridiculous legally the predict that

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ridiculous earth Rivard the bizarre

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methodology known as homeopathy

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and she was famous for carrying around a

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large jar of jelly means to say that

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sugar the jelly beans made out of sugar

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for just as effective as homeopathy but

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also she turned her attention to the bio

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machines we've been discussing on the

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sceptic zones these are the ones who you

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hook yourself up to something on your

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head or your arm or your foot or who

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knows where and those where and some

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machine pretends or claims or appears to

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scan your body with magical waves and

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then the results are shown on a computer

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screen or a buzzing buzzes Apple or

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something or other and these machines

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also claim to send energy back into your

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body to kill viruses and parasites not

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even dr. McCoy had something like this

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find out more when we chat to Loretta

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Marin from the Friends of Science in

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medicine after that would say follow-up

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report from susan gerbic from guerrilla

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skepticism on wikipedia you will

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remember last week she discussed the

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sting a psychic sting she did in New

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Zealand or she was in California but the

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psychic was in New Zealand while the New

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Zealand media have now taken up the

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story of this so-called psychic offering

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what can be best described as an

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extremely questionable health advice

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when it comes to preventing covet night

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team and then it's the return

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Michelle because ma with logical

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fallacies this week Michelle looks at

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the force equivalence fallacy this is

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when it is argued that two different

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things or points of view that may only

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have passing or superficial similarities

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are in fact logically equivalent can you

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compare apples with oranges find out

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with Michelle because ma then we have

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some news from the newsletter of

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Australian skeptics number 99 newsletter

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number 99 and to round off the show I

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chat to author Bailey Harris in the

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United States and here in Brisbane I

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chat to Ariel Massey these two women

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have got together got together to create

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and go extinct Stardust catches the

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carnivores a new board game about

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evolution teaching kids all about

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evolution in this instance about

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carnivores also in this interview you

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can find out how you can help with this

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project yourself stay tuned at the end

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of the show for more announcements from

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me but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs jumping over the cats who've

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already had their breakfast

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they've already ran downstairs about 10

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minutes ago and had their lovely cat

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kibbles don't know what they taste like

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I better not find out now it's time for

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me to run downstairs and have something

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which I have occasionally which is

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freshly toasted toast do you toast toast

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now you toast bread some freshly toasted

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bread which is toast a little bit of

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just a little bit of chilli sauce peanut

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butter on top of that and a few peanuts

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on top of that so it's sort of like a

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chili satay sauce in Hawaii on toast hmm

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it's pretty good well I think so well I

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do that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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zone

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[Music]

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folks a couple of weeks ago on the show

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you would have heard us talking about

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these bio machines these feedback

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machines these bio resonance machines

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that plague our society still machines

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you hook onto yourself or you get

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strapped up to they send a mystical

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magical energy wave or waves or

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something through your body they bounce

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around your organs and fed back so the

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naturopath or the natural health

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provider in question can then read the

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results and suggest some treatment

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joining me now on the line from

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Queensland is somebody who has been

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investigating these machines for years

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it's the jelly bean lady

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Loretta Marin good morning Richard now I

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asked you to drop by the skeptic zone

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today because it's for so many years

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you've been investigating these machines

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what could we call them broadly what

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could we say they bioresonance zapping

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type frequency energy devices oh wait

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there's two ways one you can call them

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electrical quack machines but generally

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we refer to them as electrodermal

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screening devices electrodermal meaning

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yes the electricity passes along your

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skin and diagnoses all that ails you and

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fixes it to exactly right exactly right

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and we've mentioned many times on the

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show this the one I've personally seen

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and some of the members of the skeptic

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zone this Metatron NLS Metatron

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nonlinear scanner the device from Russia

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but no matter where they're from I know

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that you must have come across many of

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these machines I've counted about 30

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that are still being used now in fact I

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listed them all than they were attached

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to a report to the TGA just to show the

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depths of these machines which cost from

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you know maybe a few hundred dollars to

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more thousands of dollars 25

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my thousand dollars they're not cheap

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yes indeed not cheap at all and there

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are lots of people out there making

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serious money by selling these machines

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and they sell them through natural

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health proponents or naturopaths for

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example who who really do think that

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these machines work now I notice here in

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the little report that you've sent me

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that in 2010 there were over 220 of

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these websites listed well back in in

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those time a decade ago now I had

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decided that I was getting nowhere with

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the TGA

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and I thought well if they could ignore

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me but could they ignore the individual

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states so I went around the internet and

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I found over 220 websites I then sorted

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them by state and then put them in

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reports which you can see are about a

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centimeter thick and that included every

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image from every website the names and

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addresses and I sent them all out to the

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individual states and I waited and what

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happened is West Australia came back to

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me and said Loretta what are these

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things and I said well if you put your

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wet finger on a light switch you get a

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little bit of a tingle

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I said that's pretty much what it is is

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that little tiny amount of electricity

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going through your body and she said

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well I know what you mean my husband's

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an electrician so that was good and then

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I was contacted by Victoria and they

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came up with the same question and I

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said why don't you talk to West

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Australia well the next thing I knew the

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devices were some of the devices were

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cancelled but not all of them one caller

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by cohn they told me it was canceled but

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when I had to look it was still there

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and that's taken a decade of writing to

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the TGA to get that one removed there's

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also one that you've brought to my

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notice called the cyber scan is that a

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similar sort of thing the cyber scan

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actually came after 2010 it was listed

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with the TGA a few years later so I

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didn't have it on the initial reports

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but it's a similar sort of sort of thing

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effect they all are they have some sort

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of idea that they're based on quantum

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physics homeopathy and acupuncture and

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this is

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just there to remove your toxins or

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identify chemicals poisons viruses

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bacteria they claim they can kill

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viruses what they stayed is that

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everything on the planet has a frequency

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and these machines can detect that

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frequency and using quantum physics can

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turn it around and zap the virus

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bacteria with the same frequency and

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you're cured cancer as well that's on

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the list for some of them called one

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called the rife you're probably familiar

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with yeah oh just still go and hold a

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Clark people like that so the machines

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were still there and once again back to

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the therapy to goods administrating

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challenging these machines showing the

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claims and the TGA said well it's not

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the sponsor making the claims it's one

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of the people selling the devices so I

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thought well that's the great loophole

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isn't it they get Fred to sponsor it and

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then you know their mates start making

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the claims and the claims included

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things like fixing up autism and just a

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during smoking addiction or foot 175 a

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meeting you have with them and and you

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need up to three to eight sessions so

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when I contacted by Conn for example I

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actually asked him what the Machine cost

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and they said it was something like

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thirty four thousand but I could make

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over a hundred thousand dollars a year

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and it was TGA approved right so the aim

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there was to get rid of get rid of the

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the approval no that's all we can do

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because it's all about advertising the

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TGA can't ban these devices they're not

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killing anybody but they can do list

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them which means technically that not

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natural pet shouldn't be using them but

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the problem is that I sent in over 200

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complaints from friends of science and

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medicine you know that I'm the CEO of

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that great group we have been going from

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yeah over eight years yes and anyway

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what the TGA and their wisdom did they

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canceled every one of the complaints

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that the whole lot back to me and said

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they were going to do an education

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campaign now we're looking here from

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dates back in August 28th

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to February this year when finally the

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bicon sponsor actually cancelled their

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device so it's taken and that was the

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celebration because I figured that was

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ten years of fighting to have that

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device cancel and what happened was we

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flew to Canberra to meet with the

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national manager and he said I can't

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cancel that device because it's a

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biofeedback device and that has a

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legitimate place in healthcare well that

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took a while for the penny to drop until

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a year or so later I thought no it's not

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so back I went to people like dr. Steve

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Roberts on quantum physics and got

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advice from proper biofeedback experts

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from Australia from overseas and they

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said this is not a biofeedback device

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and that helped I believe as well but

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the TV ends then as I say they sent all

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the complaints back but they said they

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would launch an inquiry into looking at

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the research for these devices to see

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whether they worked or not in that fit

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and give them credit they still have

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00:12:32,330 --> 00:12:30,600
have to give the people the right to

277
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:32,340
come back with their own research they

278
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:34,530
can't just say it's nonsense because the

279
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:37,530
science says it's nonsense anyway they

280
00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:38,610
obviously didn't come back with

281
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:41,220
appropriate research and they canceled

282
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:43,740
them so that was a big day this year we

283
00:12:48,410 --> 00:12:45,810
quietly had a drink after all that time

284
00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:48,420
to say at long last

285
00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:50,940
they're all gone but the trouble is the

286
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:54,060
education campaign meant that the TJ's

287
00:12:59,530 --> 00:12:56,390
sent letters out to all the bodies

288
00:13:02,810 --> 00:12:59,540
representing natural therapists and

289
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:02,820
eight months later I heard that the

290
00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:04,530
Australian traditional medicine society

291
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:06,630
who represent most of the natural

292
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:09,210
therapists still have not notified their

293
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,950
members they admitted that they had not

294
00:13:15,950 --> 00:13:12,720
sent out the letter so how effective

295
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:15,960
this education campaign is is going to

296
00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:18,290
be you know tricky when the

297
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:20,430
association's don't let their members

298
00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:22,710
know that they're actually breaking the

299
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:25,710
law all that said yeah when you see

300
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:27,270
these machines in action and I'm

301
00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:28,440
thinking about the one I've seen myself

302
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:31,380
which is called the Metatron I mentioned

303
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:34,890
before and you sit in front of a laptop

304
00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:37,650
and you put on a pair of what looked to

305
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:40,470
be headphones and on the screen is

306
00:13:45,950 --> 00:13:43,110
displayed pictures of your vital organs

307
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:45,960
down to the level of DNA and it also

308
00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:48,510
says it can zap viruses and parasites

309
00:13:55,610 --> 00:13:51,840
and things like that it is so bizarre it

310
00:13:57,260 --> 00:13:55,620
is so obviously fake I'm quite surprised

311
00:13:59,270 --> 00:13:57,270
that other aspects of the legal system

312
00:14:01,310 --> 00:13:59,280
don't come into play here I mean what

313
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:01,320
happened to good old-fashioned consumer

314
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:04,740
protection for example man you know now

315
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:07,530
come to think of it Al Capone

316
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:10,730
they finally got him not for all the the

317
00:14:14,450 --> 00:14:12,930
horrible crimes he was committing but

318
00:14:16,820 --> 00:14:14,460
they got him for tax evasion

319
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,830
so with these machines if they can't get

320
00:14:20,390 --> 00:14:18,720
them on purely health claims surely

321
00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:20,400
there's other avenues they can pursue

322
00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:22,260
when it comes to product or service that

323
00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:25,080
does not and cannot work well the

324
00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:28,020
trouble is even when you talk to some of

325
00:14:31,970 --> 00:14:29,400
the doctors they say well that's not

326
00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:31,980
hurting anyone and I know it was

327
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:34,590
actually invited to become a witness at

328
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:36,690
a parliamentary inquiry into allergies

329
00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:40,320
and if Alexis and one of my the

330
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:42,060
challenges I had was to get rid of these

331
00:14:47,060 --> 00:14:44,220
devices because all of them claim they

332
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:47,070
can actually identify in Curia allergies

333
00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:49,740
and the doctor up on the panel said I'm

334
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:51,720
gonna pay devil's advocate here he said

335
00:14:56,390 --> 00:14:54,090
what's wrong with the devices if they

336
00:14:59,360 --> 00:14:56,400
don't hurt anybody and I said they do in

337
00:15:02,300 --> 00:14:59,370
three ways I said one is that they are

338
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:02,310
taking money from you so then they're

339
00:15:08,110 --> 00:15:04,650
financially robbing you I said the

340
00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:08,120
second one is that they're actually

341
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:11,670
delaying treatment for patients so a

342
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:14,190
child has a bed allergy and they go to

343
00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:17,160
these practitioners so they spend 175

344
00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:19,620
dollars a time and they go there for 8

345
00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:22,230
weeks in a row you've delayed a proper

346
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:24,960
treatment and the third one is the

347
00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:27,450
disappointment by the family when they

348
00:15:31,850 --> 00:15:29,670
spent all this money and the child is no

349
00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:31,860
longer it's not getting any better

350
00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:33,840
and I thought that was very sad no I

351
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:36,150
actually had a visitor here one day and

352
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:39,570
she had terrible eczema and finally she

353
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:40,920
lived out in the country finally a

354
00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:42,570
specialist had come round and been able

355
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:45,960
to give her some some skin stuff to help

356
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:48,690
her and she told me of her visit to the

357
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:50,790
naturopath who put her on one of these

358
00:15:53,750 --> 00:15:52,560
machines and she had to cross her arms

359
00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:53,760
over her chest he put

360
00:15:59,270 --> 00:15:56,360
camped out on and clipped it on hmm and

361
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,280
$2,000 later she was no better off this

362
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:01,380
woman was in permanent agony with the

363
00:16:05,450 --> 00:16:03,510
sex amount with all the scratching that

364
00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:05,460
you do his skin was so itchy she showed

365
00:16:10,610 --> 00:16:08,220
me photos so there is harm being done

366
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:10,620
here it's not just oh it's not gonna

367
00:16:14,090 --> 00:16:12,300
hurt anyway it's not let's like ko me up

368
00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:14,100
it's not going to hurt anybody so all

369
00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:16,350
these people are taking it in India to

370
00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:18,660
try to stop getting the virus and that's

371
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:21,270
giving them false hope as well so yes

372
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:24,360
the harm is not just physical harm but

373
00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:26,370
it's financial harm emotional harm and

374
00:16:32,090 --> 00:16:29,580
harm in delaying proven treatments yes

375
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:32,100
of course in just last week on the

376
00:16:36,290 --> 00:16:34,290
skeptics and we had our friend of Ajit

377
00:16:38,510 --> 00:16:36,300
talking from India about the situation

378
00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:38,520
homeopathy and how it's not really

379
00:16:42,890 --> 00:16:40,080
working well it sounds a bit silly to

380
00:16:44,390 --> 00:16:42,900
say obviously it's not working but I can

381
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:44,400
see the link you're making between these

382
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:45,930
machines and something that looks like

383
00:16:51,890 --> 00:16:48,930
or promises you know pseudoscience to be

384
00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:51,900
of benefit again I'm just so gobsmacked

385
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:54,420
it's something so blatantly fake you

386
00:16:57,260 --> 00:16:55,560
know somebody's invented a computer

387
00:16:59,890 --> 00:16:57,270
program that looks like it's scanning

388
00:17:02,300 --> 00:16:59,900
your body and these things can be

389
00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:02,310
available and being used and there are

390
00:17:08,270 --> 00:17:04,790
people in the government who don't act

391
00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:08,280
straightaway as because it's it's again

392
00:17:13,430 --> 00:17:10,470
it's just so obvious I will hopefully

393
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:13,440
things have taken a turn now that the

394
00:17:17,030 --> 00:17:15,329
devices are no longer listed so that

395
00:17:18,439 --> 00:17:17,040
gives us new opportunities but I must

396
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,449
admit there are new device is still

397
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,360
coming on the market and so we we have

398
00:17:25,670 --> 00:17:23,760
to be right on to them mm-hmm it doesn't

399
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:25,680
surprise me at all sadly enough well I'm

400
00:17:29,810 --> 00:17:27,449
glad that you're there I'm glad that the

401
00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:29,820
Friends of science in medicine are

402
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:31,590
keeping up the fight I think it's very

403
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:33,450
worthwhile for the very good reasons you

404
00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:36,570
mentioned before and we'll be keeping an

405
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:39,390
eye on that I will link to the Friends

406
00:17:44,180 --> 00:17:41,610
of science and medicine website in this

407
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:44,190
week's show notes but for now Loretta

408
00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:46,080
sit back and have some nice jelly beans

409
00:17:58,999 --> 00:17:49,990
thank you very much thank you

410
00:18:05,009 --> 00:18:02,399
hi my name's Joe Thornley and I'd like

411
00:18:08,009 --> 00:18:05,019
you to join my cup I'd like you to

412
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:08,019
listen to my podcast about cults called

413
00:18:12,029 --> 00:18:10,330
zealot it's available pretty much any

414
00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:12,039
way you find podcasts with further

415
00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:14,950
reading on the zealot Facebook page each

416
00:18:19,230 --> 00:18:17,289
episode a guest joins me to talk about a

417
00:18:24,610 --> 00:18:19,240
specific cult where we answer the big

418
00:18:36,370 --> 00:18:34,840
and does anyone think they're Jesus hop

419
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:36,380
over to my compound and have a listen

420
00:19:04,710 --> 00:18:38,390
I've just mixed up a fresh batch of

421
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:12,100
here's susan gerbic now folks last week

422
00:19:16,779 --> 00:19:14,090
you will remember we had an interesting

423
00:19:20,169 --> 00:19:16,789
story with our friend susan gerbic about

424
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:20,179
a undercover operation operation Oh

425
00:19:23,409 --> 00:19:21,470
she'll tell me what it is that some

426
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:23,419
convoluted thing with porcupines and

427
00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:25,039
pies and peaches and I don't know

428
00:19:29,289 --> 00:19:27,409
whatever anyway it's a psychic sting

429
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:29,299
another psychic sting by susan gerbic

430
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:32,600
this revolved around somebody who claims

431
00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:34,490
the talk with the dead one Jeanette

432
00:19:40,269 --> 00:19:36,830
Wilson in New Zealand but she also

433
00:19:43,149 --> 00:19:40,279
claims he had a preventative fork over

434
00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:43,159
19 joining me once again from Salinas

435
00:19:48,580 --> 00:19:45,289
California its susan gerbic hello Susan

436
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:48,590
hi Richard my listeners now what an

437
00:19:53,860 --> 00:19:51,320
interesting story it was can you just

438
00:19:55,139 --> 00:19:53,870
briefly recap what happened in this

439
00:19:57,549 --> 00:19:55,149
chatroom

440
00:20:01,180 --> 00:19:57,559
well we were trying to see if we could

441
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:01,190
catch this psychic healer into giving us

442
00:20:05,019 --> 00:20:03,020
some advice about vaccines because we've

443
00:20:06,669 --> 00:20:05,029
been told she's an tiebacks she

444
00:20:08,980 --> 00:20:06,679
complained about her Wikipedia page

445
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:08,990
having quotes on it saying that she's

446
00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:10,970
anti Beck's so we wanted to see if we

447
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:12,860
can catch her actually saying it on

448
00:20:20,529 --> 00:20:17,049
video her beliefs and boy did we went I

449
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:20,539
attended a online session along with a

450
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:21,919
couple members from the New Zealand

451
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:25,250
skeptics and we recorded everything and

452
00:20:32,649 --> 00:20:29,210
we at the very end of the workshop she

453
00:20:36,639 --> 00:20:32,659
gave I asked her a question about if she

454
00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:36,649
was having any forsyth into what's

455
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:38,340
happening with Cova and

456
00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:41,010
scene and she gave me a 16 minute rant

457
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:46,860
about boba 19 and how how we can best

458
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:48,690
fix it plus her reviews on the

459
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:53,070
government and Trump and on and on and

460
00:20:58,340 --> 00:20:55,919
we had it all on audio and I think the

461
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:58,350
important thing is I mean we know

462
00:21:01,970 --> 00:21:00,299
there's lots of conspiracy theories out

463
00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:01,980
there and people who follow it and think

464
00:21:06,289 --> 00:21:04,289
that the virus was man-made and you know

465
00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:06,299
and you know what you know people have

466
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:09,390
crazy ideas but I think the important

467
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:12,690
point here was that she was offering or

468
00:21:18,590 --> 00:21:15,450
suggesting or telling you the audience

469
00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:18,600
the listeners of her meeting that they

470
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:21,270
should try this supplement and she was

471
00:21:27,019 --> 00:21:24,450
making very specific claims for that

472
00:21:29,299 --> 00:21:27,029
yeah absolutely it's not so much the

473
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,309
problem that she is making claims about

474
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:31,679
healing or kinds about speaking to the

475
00:21:37,549 --> 00:21:33,570
dead but whenever you start talking

476
00:21:39,889 --> 00:21:37,559
about how to keep awake Ovid by taking

477
00:21:43,010 --> 00:21:39,899
some sort of supplement that really

478
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:43,020
makes my hackles go yeah now there's a

479
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:44,850
follow-up to the story because this has

480
00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:47,580
been now taken up by the New Zealand

481
00:21:54,919 --> 00:21:50,760
press I believe yes it was reported by

482
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:54,929
Tobey macGuire in this in off and that's

483
00:22:02,180 --> 00:21:59,760
an online newspaper so to speak on news

484
00:22:03,529 --> 00:22:02,190
outlet and folks I'll link to that page

485
00:22:07,370 --> 00:22:03,539
in this week's show note it's quite

486
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:07,380
extensive I mean he really did listen or

487
00:22:12,769 --> 00:22:09,630
read the transcripts very thoroughly and

488
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:12,779
he put questions to her about it yes he

489
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:15,570
contacted her and she I woke up to find

490
00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:18,809
a cease and desist kind of take down

491
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:21,480
your videos off of my channel from her

492
00:22:25,940 --> 00:22:24,720
so I really do sir private and I don't

493
00:22:27,799 --> 00:22:25,950
have a problem with that I don't have

494
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:27,809
the only reason I have the video is up

495
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:29,580
on my YouTube channel was so that the

496
00:22:34,310 --> 00:22:32,460
media be able to access it yeah it's

497
00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:34,320
sort of what what what's that expression

498
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:37,350
the shutting Mabon gate after the horses

499
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:40,559
bolted it really doesn't matter I don't

500
00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:42,450
really have a problem when you catch

501
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,950
psychics and doing something like that

502
00:22:46,669 --> 00:22:45,360
where they say that you know you

503
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:46,679
recorded this and you weren't supposed

504
00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:49,530
to record it or you did this or you did

505
00:22:53,260 --> 00:22:51,500
that I mean they're psychic

506
00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:53,270
they should know I am on the call with

507
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:55,790
them and I spent over two hours on the

508
00:22:58,990 --> 00:22:57,530
call with her with a fake name that she

509
00:23:01,240 --> 00:22:59,000
would haven't been able to look at my

510
00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:01,250
face she was interacting with me the

511
00:23:05,890 --> 00:23:03,320
whole time so if she didn't know that I

512
00:23:08,050 --> 00:23:05,900
was not who I said I was that's not my

513
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:08,060
fault she should know that well you know

514
00:23:12,370 --> 00:23:10,610
I guess it's the old thing that if

515
00:23:14,590 --> 00:23:12,380
there's if they were really psychic then

516
00:23:19,710 --> 00:23:14,600
they would do XYZ and their comeback is

517
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,370
that's right

518
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:23,600
okay now folks again please have a look

519
00:23:27,070 --> 00:23:25,970
at this report linked in the show notes

520
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:27,080
I think you'll find it really

521
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:30,290
interesting reading but I think Susan

522
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:32,050
you were telling me there's another

523
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:35,450
psychic sting being reported on so

524
00:23:40,330 --> 00:23:38,330
Thomas John Flanagan is one of the

525
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:40,340
psychics that I had busted quite a few

526
00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:43,760
years ago in operation pizza roll and he

527
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:46,550
had a show in Vegas at Caesar's Palace

528
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:49,130
and now he has a new show starting today

529
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:51,050
in fact it's probably playing right now

530
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:53,450
in his first the first episode is called

531
00:23:57,250 --> 00:23:55,520
the Thomas John experience mm-hmm and

532
00:23:59,680 --> 00:23:57,260
from what I understand it looks just

533
00:24:01,960 --> 00:23:59,690
like his other show seat belt psychic

534
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:01,970
except that sometimes now he gets on

535
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:03,530
with a car and he does readings with

536
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:06,890
people on park benches or while he's

537
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:09,200
eating or whatever but before it was

538
00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:12,530
just in a car well I did a lot of

539
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:14,660
research before this came out and I

540
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:17,450
wrote another article and it is out

541
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:19,220
right now hopefully you'll link to it in

542
00:24:23,650 --> 00:24:21,890
the show notes but it appeared this

543
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:23,660
morning it's printed in well it's

544
00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:26,570
available on online it's skeptical

545
00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:29,390
inquirer hmm and because that article

546
00:24:33,910 --> 00:24:32,030
came out today I made a few predictions

547
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:33,920
about what I think people are gonna see

548
00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:37,010
on the show tonight when they watch so

549
00:24:42,820 --> 00:24:40,460
my my predictions are published and so

550
00:24:44,980 --> 00:24:42,830
let's see how accurate I am we're using

551
00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:44,990
that article spreading it around of

552
00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:46,670
course it's on this Wikipedia page as

553
00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:49,190
well as the article from spin off about

554
00:24:53,410 --> 00:24:51,950
Jeannette Wilson I'm sure both of them

555
00:24:55,870 --> 00:24:53,420
are not going to be happy about having

556
00:24:58,490 --> 00:24:55,880
this Wikipedia pages updated with the

557
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:58,500
most recent articles

558
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:01,279
well Thank You Susan for your your

559
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:04,110
continuous and the tireless work and

560
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:07,049
your undercover work and we'll keep an

561
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:08,730
eye on things and please alert me when

562
00:25:13,249 --> 00:25:10,830
you're doing your next a little sneaky

563
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,259
sting well thank you so much Richard

564
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:15,120
you've always been so gracious and

565
00:25:25,479 --> 00:25:16,290
reporting our work

566
00:25:28,309 --> 00:25:25,489
[Music]

567
00:25:31,729 --> 00:25:28,319
aliens are probing people and mutilating

568
00:25:33,859 --> 00:25:31,739
cows 9/11 was an inside job

569
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:33,869
I'm the oppa to clean up my athlete's

570
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:37,289
foot vaccines cause autism little

571
00:25:42,739 --> 00:25:39,809
sockets a tinnitus bone is definitely

572
00:25:45,139 --> 00:25:42,749
real we all have friends and family who

573
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:45,149
believe these things and much more well

574
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:47,159
if you're a rational thinker who is

575
00:25:50,599 --> 00:25:49,049
tired of arguing on social media and

576
00:25:51,709 --> 00:25:50,609
never getting anywhere we have a

577
00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:51,719
solution for you

578
00:25:56,029 --> 00:25:53,729
join the guerrilla skepticism on

579
00:25:58,579 --> 00:25:56,039
wikipedia team and we will teach you how

580
00:26:00,499 --> 00:25:58,589
to add reliable scientific and skeptical

581
00:26:03,649 --> 00:26:00,509
information to the world's number-one

582
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:03,659
source of information Wikipedia we write

583
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:05,609
new articles and improve existing ones

584
00:26:10,309 --> 00:26:08,159
we remove pseudoscience paranormal and

585
00:26:12,469 --> 00:26:10,319
altmed claims substituting the actual

586
00:26:15,139 --> 00:26:12,479
facts and we operate in many languages

587
00:26:17,539 --> 00:26:15,149
we've already reached tens of millions

588
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:17,549
of people searching for information but

589
00:26:22,579 --> 00:26:19,529
as you can imagine we can never do

590
00:26:25,219 --> 00:26:22,589
enough so please join us all you need is

591
00:26:27,589 --> 00:26:25,229
a PC a Facebook account and the desire

592
00:26:29,239 --> 00:26:27,599
to help educate the planet in fact

593
00:26:33,109 --> 00:26:29,249
you'll be educating the world while you

594
00:26:36,889 --> 00:26:33,119
sleep contact us at G is Oh W team @

595
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:36,899
gmail.com guerrilla skepticism the time

596
00:27:00,080 --> 00:26:41,210
is now music by purple planet calm

597
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,090
[Music]

598
00:27:04,770 --> 00:27:02,000
logical fallacies

599
00:27:08,289 --> 00:27:04,780
[Music]

600
00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:08,299
what are logical fallacies and why is it

601
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:10,190
important that critical thinkers should

602
00:27:15,030 --> 00:27:12,340
know about them

603
00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:15,040
a logical fallacy is an error we can

604
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:18,070
make in reasoning but it usually crops

605
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:20,320
up when we are discussing or arguing our

606
00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:24,070
point of view some people might even

607
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:26,500
knowingly use them to try and score

608
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:28,690
cheap points in an argument due to

609
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:30,930
intellectual laziness

610
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:34,270
they are traps we can fall into but if

611
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:36,730
we know what to look out for we can spot

612
00:27:45,060 --> 00:27:39,070
them when they occur and stop ourselves

613
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:45,070
from using them this time we'll look at

614
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:48,880
the false equivalence fallacy this is

615
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:50,590
when it's argued that two different

616
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:53,470
things or points of view that may have

617
00:27:59,520 --> 00:27:55,930
only passing or superficial similarities

618
00:28:02,310 --> 00:27:59,530
are in fact logically equivalent we've

619
00:28:05,730 --> 00:28:02,320
all heard the saying you are comparing

620
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:05,740
apples with oranges yes they are both

621
00:28:12,540 --> 00:28:09,010
fruit both round and both are good to

622
00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:12,550
eat but despite these similarities they

623
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:15,070
are not the same thing and should not be

624
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:18,010
compared as such medical intuitive's

625
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:20,350
those gifted people who can sense what

626
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,290
is going on in your body are very caring

627
00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:25,360
people who treat thousands of patients

628
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:28,660
each year yes they can make mistakes

629
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:31,330
from time to time but so do mainstream

630
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:34,530
doctors so in fact they're much the same

631
00:28:40,650 --> 00:28:37,570
yes both medical intuitive and

632
00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:40,660
mainstream doctors are caring people who

633
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:43,900
do make mistakes from time to time they

634
00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:46,960
also probably drive cars listen to music

635
00:28:53,550 --> 00:28:51,190
and brush their teeth however all these

636
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:53,560
things do not mean that they are similar

637
00:28:59,550 --> 00:28:56,730
when it comes to health care and advice

638
00:29:02,520 --> 00:28:59,560
while mainstream doctors are trained in

639
00:29:05,010 --> 00:29:02,530
and follow the scientific method medical

640
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:05,020
intuitive rarely have medical training

641
00:29:11,070 --> 00:29:08,290
and rely on the unproven and frankly

642
00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:11,080
quite bizarre idea that they can use

643
00:29:17,850 --> 00:29:13,960
something akin to ESP to diagnose

644
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:17,860
illnesses when it comes to vaccination

645
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:20,170
we have experts who say it's safe and

646
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:23,260
effective but then again other experts

647
00:29:28,930 --> 00:29:25,610
say it's not worth the risk and

648
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:28,940
has links to autism the term expert

649
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:31,840
seems to be used quite a bit these days

650
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:34,640
just because someone is known as an

651
00:29:40,810 --> 00:29:37,490
expert or even labels themselves as an

652
00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:40,820
expert it doesn't necessarily mean they

653
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:43,540
have valid expert knowledge in a subject

654
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:46,970
we even have the situation where people

655
00:29:53,620 --> 00:29:49,490
refer to themselves as having mastered a

656
00:29:56,020 --> 00:29:53,630
modality for example Reiki masters even

657
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:56,030
though there is no credible evidence

658
00:30:02,799 --> 00:29:59,679
that Reiki based on mystical energies

659
00:30:06,010 --> 00:30:02,809
exists at all the Stars and the planets

660
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:06,020
are wonderful and mysterious astrologers

661
00:30:10,419 --> 00:30:08,690
and astronomers continue to study the

662
00:30:13,870 --> 00:30:10,429
night sky to learn more about our

663
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:13,880
universe the size of astrology evolved

664
00:30:18,850 --> 00:30:15,890
out of the natural wonder and curiosity

665
00:30:22,510 --> 00:30:18,860
of our ancestors when they looked up at

666
00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:22,520
the night sky it was not surprising they

667
00:30:27,820 --> 00:30:24,950
saw patterns in the Stars and made up

668
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:27,830
stories of gods animals and great

669
00:30:35,950 --> 00:30:31,490
adventures and did so all over the world

670
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:35,960
for thousands of years in Australia for

671
00:30:41,650 --> 00:30:39,110
example the Aboriginal people used the

672
00:30:44,049 --> 00:30:41,660
appearance of stars at various times of

673
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:44,059
the year to help them to know when to

674
00:30:50,650 --> 00:30:48,290
hunt for certain animals however today's

675
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:50,660
astrology charts and predictions have

676
00:30:55,180 --> 00:30:52,460
very little to do with the real

677
00:30:58,900 --> 00:30:55,190
scientific study of stars planets and

678
00:31:01,930 --> 00:30:58,910
galaxies that your personality or events

679
00:31:04,750 --> 00:31:01,940
in your future can be read by looking at

680
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:04,760
the heavens has long since been shown to

681
00:31:10,930 --> 00:31:07,100
be nothing more than superstition and

682
00:31:14,650 --> 00:31:10,940
magical thinking in the most important

683
00:31:15,780 --> 00:31:14,660
ways you cannot compare astrology with

684
00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:15,790
astronomy

685
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:18,100
[Music]

686
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:21,350
like many other logical fallacies it's

687
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:24,110
not always easy and obvious to tell when

688
00:31:29,860 --> 00:31:26,480
the false equivalence fallacy is being

689
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:29,870
used sometimes it takes a little thought

690
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:33,320
or even research to know for sure it's

691
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:35,630
important not to be too critical with

692
00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:44,230
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

693
00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:46,670
one and even knowing its name is

694
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:49,070
important when arguing your point of

695
00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:52,730
view however you may come across as

696
00:31:58,150 --> 00:31:55,550
arrogant and not get very far if you

697
00:32:01,840 --> 00:31:58,160
call it out by name to your opponent

698
00:32:04,210 --> 00:32:01,850
when you hear it being used if your

699
00:32:07,030 --> 00:32:04,220
opponent calls you out for using one

700
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:07,040
it's time to stop and think about how

701
00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:10,610
you are making your case use your

702
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:12,950
knowledge of logical fallacies wisely

703
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:16,250
and remember that even if your point of

704
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:18,500
view is right and you know all the

705
00:32:25,030 --> 00:32:21,770
pitfalls in arguing your case it doesn't

706
00:32:28,450 --> 00:32:25,040
always mean you'll win on the day and a

707
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:28,460
skeptics we must also remember that we

708
00:32:36,910 --> 00:32:34,250
too can be wrong at times I'm sure

709
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:36,920
because my from the Vik skeptics thanks

710
00:32:55,740 --> 00:32:52,800
[Music]

711
00:32:58,290 --> 00:32:55,750
now it's time to see what's making news

712
00:33:00,960 --> 00:32:58,300
at Australian skeptics for the

713
00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:00,970
Australian skeptics newsletter number 99

714
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:05,560
and this newsletter can be yours by

715
00:33:21,230 --> 00:33:19,080
skeptic on 20/20 goes online following a

716
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:21,240
lot of discussion soul-searching

717
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:24,370
consulting and an extremely helpful

718
00:33:29,610 --> 00:33:26,950
survey the organizers of skeptic on

719
00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:29,620
20/20 have decided that the event this

720
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:32,830
year will be purely online naturally

721
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,200
this decision has been influenced by the

722
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:37,840
need to assure the health and safety of

723
00:33:43,230 --> 00:33:40,810
attendees due to covert 19 whatever the

724
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:43,240
nature of existing and possible future

725
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:46,480
regulations may be the upside is that

726
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:48,910
this will be a first for an Australian

727
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:50,770
skeptics and your convention and gives a

728
00:33:56,550 --> 00:33:54,280
lot more people the chance to attend

729
00:33:58,530 --> 00:33:56,560
without the cost of travel and

730
00:34:01,980 --> 00:33:58,540
accommodation or getting out of their

731
00:34:04,650 --> 00:34:01,990
pajamas for that matter my next item

732
00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:04,660
says federal ministers flooded with

733
00:34:09,620 --> 00:34:07,150
unprecedented level of anti-vaccination

734
00:34:12,419 --> 00:34:09,630
mail in the age of digital

735
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:12,429
communications a good old-fashioned

736
00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:15,370
letter-writing campaign pushed by a

737
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:18,060
couple from northern New South Wales

738
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:22,030
surprise we also have stories on seven

739
00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:26,800
traits for conspiratorial thinking 7 set

740
00:34:31,950 --> 00:34:29,560
more like 70 these days a handy guide

741
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:31,960
inspired by coronavirus and the planned

742
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,480
emic documentary the seven

743
00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:36,450
characteristics to help you identify

744
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,390
conspiratorial thinking include

745
00:34:45,090 --> 00:34:41,919
contradictory beliefs over rising

746
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:45,100
suspicion belief in nefarious Tennant

747
00:34:49,710 --> 00:34:46,570
etc

748
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:49,720
here's one should scientists take UFOs

749
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:53,890
and ghosts more seriously actually this

750
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:56,050
article is more about why one particular

751
00:35:02,040 --> 00:34:58,570
journalist takes UFOs and ghosts

752
00:35:04,610 --> 00:35:02,050
seriously you really only get into their

753
00:35:07,710 --> 00:35:04,620
tibula question in the last paragraph

754
00:35:10,770 --> 00:35:07,720
nonetheless interesting perspective on

755
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:10,780
one journalists feelings even if it is

756
00:35:16,860 --> 00:35:13,810
too full of patra sponsors like quote

757
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:16,870
I'm not sure in quote and quote I won't

758
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:18,850
commit myself one way or the other in

759
00:35:26,010 --> 00:35:22,510
quote and quote you're entitled to your

760
00:35:28,590 --> 00:35:26,020
view and quote also a rise in paranormal

761
00:35:31,890 --> 00:35:28,600
activity in the home since quarantine

762
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:31,900
one wonders what home some interesting

763
00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:33,970
and edifying examples of faulty logic

764
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:36,190
here otherwise this piece would have

765
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:38,170
been down the bottom of the news letter

766
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:40,960
with the silly stuff and also we have

767
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,170
the Nobel disease when intelligence

768
00:35:50,010 --> 00:35:46,960
fails to protect against irrationality

769
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,020
and finally the newsletter says the June

770
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:53,440
2020 issue of the skeptic the Journal

771
00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:54,970
from Australian skeptics will be out

772
00:36:02,360 --> 00:35:58,200
soon with a feature on chiropractic

773
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:02,370
crazy claims doggie claims the

774
00:36:08,430 --> 00:36:05,250
complexities of subluxation complex

775
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,440
sounds interesting and general

776
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:10,720
pseudoscience underpinnings not to

777
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:13,450
mention how not to make wine taste

778
00:36:18,030 --> 00:36:15,370
better under strict scientific

779
00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:18,040
conditions the inside a story on the

780
00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:21,160
Carlos hoax psychics and mystics in

781
00:36:27,930 --> 00:36:23,800
Australian history the story of Atlantis

782
00:36:29,970 --> 00:36:27,940
sunk and much more that's only a sample

783
00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:29,980
of what's available on the newsletter

784
00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:32,470
and again to sign up for this newsletter

785
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:35,790
for yourself just go to WWE captain's

786
00:36:57,099 --> 00:36:38,270
comm a you

787
00:37:00,590 --> 00:36:57,109
[Music]

788
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:00,600
well folks if you remember last year I

789
00:37:05,330 --> 00:37:02,490
was very lucky enough to go to Dragon

790
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:05,340
Con in Atlanta Georgia and what a

791
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:06,930
wonderful time I had and one of the

792
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:08,640
fascinating people I met there was a

793
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:11,850
young author by the name of Bailey

794
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:13,530
Harris and she was writing a series of

795
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,130
books about well exploring history in

796
00:37:22,460 --> 00:37:19,560
the universe based around the character

797
00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:22,470
of Stardust and I'm delighted to say

798
00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:24,630
once again joining me on the line all

799
00:37:28,609 --> 00:37:26,280
the way from the United States we have

800
00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:28,619
Bailey Harris hello Bailey hello how are

801
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:31,230
you I'm doing very well lovely to see

802
00:37:35,180 --> 00:37:33,840
you because for the magic of zoom and

803
00:37:37,820 --> 00:37:35,190
all sorts of things like that we can see

804
00:37:43,180 --> 00:37:37,830
each other but also in the same meeting

805
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:43,190
I'm joined by Ariel Massey from Brisbane

806
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:47,760
who is very interesting has a very

807
00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:50,040
interesting life Ariel you're part of a

808
00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:52,740
group or an outlet or a company or

809
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:55,830
something called steam galaxy studios

810
00:37:59,840 --> 00:37:57,930
but you're also a biologist what's

811
00:38:03,260 --> 00:37:59,850
what's your story what's your background

812
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:03,270
yeah so I am a biologist first I would

813
00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:05,970
say and then I came across game design

814
00:38:09,950 --> 00:38:08,070
as a wonderful way to teach science

815
00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:09,960
because science is very dynamic you see

816
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,390
and so are games and so they make a

817
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:14,640
great medium to teach and so I founded

818
00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:16,710
my company steam galaxy on the premise

819
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:18,630
that games are particularly well suited

820
00:38:23,090 --> 00:38:20,970
to teach science I think you're

821
00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:23,100
absolutely right and what's the origin

822
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:26,820
of the the term steam galaxy cuz it sort

823
00:38:30,890 --> 00:38:28,710
of reminds me a bit of steampunk you

824
00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:30,900
know a little bit of an old-fashioned

825
00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:32,460
and science fiction and things like that

826
00:38:36,590 --> 00:38:33,540
I'm really glad you brought that up

827
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:36,600
because I love sci-fi but steam in

828
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:39,990
particular relates to stem Plus arts so

829
00:38:45,620 --> 00:38:43,440
it is all caps but I like the idea of a

830
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:45,630
steam galaxy it might have a milky way

831
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:49,680
maybe it is very appealing stem plus

832
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:51,930
arts equals steam galaxy that's

833
00:38:58,700 --> 00:38:55,530
fascinating and before we get talking

834
00:39:02,300 --> 00:38:58,710
about the original game and this is very

835
00:39:03,830 --> 00:39:02,310
interesting story folks let's oh I came

836
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:03,840
across this bit of information about you

837
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:06,960
and I thought oh dream of dreams you get

838
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:08,880
to do something incredibly amazing you

839
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:13,290
make 3d scans of rodents goals that's

840
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:16,200
right so as you can hear from my accent

841
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:18,180
I'm American but I live in Brisbane

842
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:20,250
because I'm doing my PhD at the

843
00:39:25,220 --> 00:39:23,130
University of Queensland and what's so

844
00:39:27,380 --> 00:39:25,230
great about Australia is that you guys

845
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:27,390
have the best most awesomely weird

846
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:32,040
mammals and this includes not just the

847
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:34,680
egg-laying monotremes and the marsupials

848
00:39:40,099 --> 00:39:36,720
with their delightful pouches but it

849
00:39:41,060 --> 00:39:40,109
also includes the native rodents and a

850
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:41,070
lot of people don't realize that

851
00:39:47,660 --> 00:39:44,480
Australia has over 60 native rodents

852
00:39:48,859 --> 00:39:47,670
they're the most species million family

853
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:48,869
on the continent which is quite an

854
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:50,550
accomplishment given that they've only

855
00:39:53,540 --> 00:39:52,410
been here for about four million years

856
00:39:55,730 --> 00:39:53,550
so it's very interested in their

857
00:39:58,430 --> 00:39:55,740
evolution and one way that you can do

858
00:40:00,650 --> 00:39:58,440
that is by studying the shape of their

859
00:40:02,420 --> 00:40:00,660
skulls which are very complex and they

860
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:02,430
encode a lot of information about what

861
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:05,730
they do and how they orient their vision

862
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:08,160
and so I get to use a very cool blue

863
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:11,280
light 3d scanner which very quickly and

864
00:40:18,109 --> 00:40:14,910
economically allows me to capture 3d

865
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:18,119
skills 3d scans of skulls and I use that

866
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:20,760
as the basis of my data these scans of

867
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:23,369
skulls yes evolutionary studies it's

868
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:26,160
just it's it's like almost it should be

869
00:40:37,370 --> 00:40:34,440
a movie of course Wow so you can then

870
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:37,380
print them out Wow

871
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:40,020
Oh gotta love science that's just

872
00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:42,119
fascinating now Bailey back to you and

873
00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:44,940
just just to remind our audience of

874
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:46,440
course I was speaking to you last year

875
00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:49,710
about the Stardust series of books and

876
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:51,420
you wrote your first book when you were

877
00:40:55,850 --> 00:40:53,730
eight and just to remind us all what

878
00:40:57,770 --> 00:40:55,860
what inspires you to write that book

879
00:40:59,780 --> 00:40:57,780
when I was eight years old I was

880
00:41:02,590 --> 00:40:59,790
watching a show with my family that's

881
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:02,600
called cosmos and Neil deGrasse Tyson

882
00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:08,730
who's who's the host of it said in one

883
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:10,950
of the episodes our bodies are made of

884
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:13,050
Stardust and as an eight-year-old I

885
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:16,590
thought this was so surreal and I was

886
00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:19,260
like I have to go upstairs I have to

887
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:21,990
write about it tell people about this I

888
00:41:28,610 --> 00:41:25,310
thought it was so cool that's how I

889
00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:28,620
started off with my first book mmm well

890
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:31,020
that that series cosmos with Neil

891
00:41:35,780 --> 00:41:32,730
deGrasse Tyson and the original series

892
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:35,790
way back in the 80s with Carl Sagan my

893
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:38,070
goodness me that that has inspired so

894
00:41:42,830 --> 00:41:40,170
many people including myself of course

895
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:42,840
it's a wonderful series indeed now back

896
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:46,770
to you Ariel for a moment we have the

897
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:49,970
original game that you invented or

898
00:41:55,220 --> 00:41:52,650
co-created way back in 2014 called go

899
00:41:59,170 --> 00:41:55,230
extinct what was the idea behind that

900
00:42:01,580 --> 00:41:59,180
game yeah so I had the distinct honor of

901
00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:01,590
teaching full-time at Stanford

902
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:02,790
University which is where I graduated

903
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:05,910
from the year after I graduated in a

904
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:07,890
course called human biology which

905
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,440
combined not only the usual track of

906
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:12,240
violent biological sciences but had a

907
00:42:16,070 --> 00:42:14,940
parallel track of courses of the social

908
00:42:18,590 --> 00:42:16,080
sciences and they tried to make them

909
00:42:19,850 --> 00:42:18,600
sync up as much as possible and what

910
00:42:21,590 --> 00:42:19,860
that meant is that I had a great

911
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:21,600
diversity of students interested in

912
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:24,480
anything and everything from medicine to

913
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:26,610
improving health policy in Washington

914
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:29,220
and so that meant that I needed to make

915
00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:31,530
the course subject as interesting and

916
00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:33,840
engaging as compelling and accessible as

917
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:36,870
possible to a wide diversity of learners

918
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:38,370
and people with different you know

919
00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:40,740
backgrounds and preparedness for the

920
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:44,100
biological track one of the concepts I

921
00:42:47,540 --> 00:42:46,050
had the most difficulty with was

922
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:47,550
actually one of my favorite concepts

923
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:49,800
which is the evolutionary tree which as

924
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:51,810
an evolutionary biologist I sort of live

925
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:54,210
in brief I like to compare it to a

926
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:55,980
resident of stone like once you know how

927
00:42:59,150 --> 00:42:56,640
to read it

928
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:59,160
you can you can approach a new set of

929
00:43:03,380 --> 00:43:01,440
organisms very easily by making

930
00:43:03,830 --> 00:43:03,390
inferences based on the organisms you

931
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:03,840
understand

932
00:43:09,740 --> 00:43:06,480
yeah so I was trying to teach this

933
00:43:12,590 --> 00:43:09,750
concept which is a complicated concept

934
00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:12,600
to teach in a linear way like we do with

935
00:43:18,620 --> 00:43:15,030
books or with sand of lectures or even

936
00:43:21,350 --> 00:43:18,630
office hours so I decided I needed to

937
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:21,360
invent a new way of teaching it and

938
00:43:26,090 --> 00:43:24,270
gains because they're not linear they're

939
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:26,100
dynamic they're actually sort of

940
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:27,780
circular because you get to repeat the

941
00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:30,090
same sort of turn over and over you get

942
00:43:33,770 --> 00:43:31,980
to really practice that one idea of

943
00:43:37,970 --> 00:43:33,780
thinking about clades thinking about

944
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:37,980
sets within sets and so that that'll

945
00:43:42,770 --> 00:43:41,130
experiment turned into a game turned

946
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:42,780
into a Kickstarter turned into my

947
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:45,570
company and has now turned into this

948
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:47,040
collaboration which I'm very excited

949
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:48,450
about now let's talk about this

950
00:43:52,610 --> 00:43:50,310
collaboration you two have got together

951
00:43:55,010 --> 00:43:52,620
the Stardust series of books and the

952
00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:55,020
little Stardust character plus this game

953
00:44:00,920 --> 00:43:58,770
called go extinct and the new game the

954
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:00,930
new game has appeared go extinct

955
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:04,170
Stardust catches the carnivores and I'm

956
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:05,790
very lucky folks I tell you what I'm

957
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:09,090
just I've got the whole game right here

958
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:10,770
oh there it goes crashing into

959
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:13,290
microphone I've got the whole game right

960
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:14,730
here I'm holding it up so everybody can

961
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:17,010
see it look at that and where to

962
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:18,510
describe it it's it's it's fascinating

963
00:44:22,910 --> 00:44:20,370
it's that it's like the evolutionary

964
00:44:24,940 --> 00:44:22,920
tree we've got the Maya sit down the

965
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:24,950
bottom there we've Stardust

966
00:44:30,980 --> 00:44:28,260
ancestor of Carnivora and all the

967
00:44:32,660 --> 00:44:30,990
descendants well many of them about 58

968
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:32,670
different animals going through to the

969
00:44:36,050 --> 00:44:34,710
modern era with things like the cat and

970
00:44:37,820 --> 00:44:36,060
the painted wolf and we've got the

971
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:37,830
elephant seal the skunk we're going back

972
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:41,160
through history all the ancestors right

973
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:44,240
back to the original one and the game

974
00:44:48,140 --> 00:44:46,770
comes with a series of cards which I'm

975
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:48,150
picking up now which tell you a little

976
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:49,770
bit that we've got the gray wolf we've

977
00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:53,250
got the the cheetah all the carnivores

978
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:55,740
and we can see on the card we can check

979
00:45:00,650 --> 00:44:57,290
in all there's little little

980
00:45:03,590 --> 00:45:00,660
evolutionary history there and area I

981
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:03,600
believe the game is loosely based on the

982
00:45:10,970 --> 00:45:07,490
game fish or go fish that's right yes so

983
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:10,980
like go fish you're just collecting sets

984
00:45:15,330 --> 00:45:13,290
but instead of collecting sets of

985
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:15,340
numbers you're collecting sets

986
00:45:20,220 --> 00:45:18,130
closely related animals which in biology

987
00:45:23,250 --> 00:45:20,230
we call crown glades so you're trying to

988
00:45:26,250 --> 00:45:23,260
get a monophyletic clade which is all of

989
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:26,260
the unique animals so in the sort of

990
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:28,510
wolf group the true dog group you would

991
00:45:33,810 --> 00:45:30,910
need the gray wolf the painted wolf

992
00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:33,820
yeah the bush dog and Darwin Zorro so

993
00:45:37,890 --> 00:45:35,500
you need those four animals and you use

994
00:45:40,590 --> 00:45:37,900
the evolutionary tree to figure out what

995
00:45:43,470 --> 00:45:40,600
those animals were and what other things

996
00:45:45,810 --> 00:45:43,480
you could ask to get them Wow so the

997
00:45:47,550 --> 00:45:45,820
twist with with these games is that not

998
00:45:50,460 --> 00:45:47,560
only can you ask for the specific animal

999
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:50,470
you can ask for the ancestors too so you

1000
00:45:55,710 --> 00:45:52,960
could ask for any true dog so any of

1001
00:45:58,740 --> 00:45:55,720
those four animals I explained or you

1002
00:46:00,120 --> 00:45:58,750
could ask for any doglike animal you can

1003
00:46:03,210 --> 00:46:00,130
even ask for the myosin which would be

1004
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:03,220
any any carnivore so it really really

1005
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:05,650
practices that thinking of clay thinking

1006
00:46:10,290 --> 00:46:07,270
which we call so-called tree thinking

1007
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:10,300
and working with the probabilities of

1008
00:46:16,380 --> 00:46:13,660
what you're likely to get now Bailey how

1009
00:46:19,410 --> 00:46:16,390
did you actually end up hooking up with

1010
00:46:23,730 --> 00:46:19,420
area for this project we started off at

1011
00:46:25,620 --> 00:46:23,740
like Kickstarter and I like found her

1012
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:25,630
game and I thought it was so cool and

1013
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:28,570
then we like got connected and we talked

1014
00:46:34,740 --> 00:46:31,570
and I think that's pretty much how it

1015
00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:34,750
happened a little bit more well I think

1016
00:46:40,530 --> 00:46:37,750
your your startup's explores earth

1017
00:46:42,270 --> 00:46:40,540
wonders was the first real collaboration

1018
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:42,280
that we started and that was so much fun

1019
00:46:45,870 --> 00:46:44,290
I was really honored that you asked me

1020
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:45,880
to help you with that because it's such

1021
00:46:51,870 --> 00:46:49,570
a great book and one of the reasons we

1022
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:51,880
decided to focus on carnivores is

1023
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:53,650
because Bailey chose a lot of great

1024
00:46:58,350 --> 00:46:56,530
examples involving carnivores in her

1025
00:47:03,120 --> 00:46:58,360
latest book so everything from bears to

1026
00:47:04,170 --> 00:47:03,130
wolves to the Maya said itself so she

1027
00:47:06,090 --> 00:47:04,180
already had a lot of amazing

1028
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:06,100
illustrations to include in the game so

1029
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:07,750
that was really fun well it sounds like

1030
00:47:12,450 --> 00:47:10,090
a fabulous meeting of the minds there

1031
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:12,460
now Bailey to you why do you think that

1032
00:47:18,330 --> 00:47:15,370
evolution education is so important to

1033
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:18,340
you personally and what do you think why

1034
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:19,390
do you think it's so important to

1035
00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:20,710
children all around the world

1036
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:23,080
evolution has helped me understand how I

1037
00:47:28,970 --> 00:47:25,810
am connected to everything in our world

1038
00:47:34,230 --> 00:47:28,980
and I feel like when I look at other

1039
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:34,240
animal even a plant is amazing so it's

1040
00:47:43,170 --> 00:47:38,170
me to understand that we all have common

1041
00:47:45,210 --> 00:47:43,180
ancestors is just amazing so yeah it's

1042
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:45,220
absolutely amazing it's fascinating to

1043
00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:47,410
learn these things I personally find it

1044
00:47:53,670 --> 00:47:50,080
when I discovered some years ago many

1045
00:47:56,010 --> 00:47:53,680
years ago that birds are the descendants

1046
00:47:58,230 --> 00:47:56,020
of some dinosaurs that just blew my mind

1047
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,240
I thought that was just amazing and I

1048
00:48:04,410 --> 00:48:00,160
saw a little sparrow

1049
00:48:07,860 --> 00:48:04,420
Wow it's a descendant from a dinosaur

1050
00:48:09,690 --> 00:48:07,870
that's it's it really maybe that can be

1051
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:09,700
the next one maybe it's birds to

1052
00:48:16,350 --> 00:48:11,890
dinosaurs oh it's endless it's endless

1053
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:16,360
fun now how can people get in touch with

1054
00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:18,850
you or find out more about steam Galaxy

1055
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:21,280
Studios certainly well we have a website

1056
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:27,280
it's WWE steam galaxy calm and that my

1057
00:48:33,930 --> 00:48:30,130
contact email is there or they can email

1058
00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:33,940
me at AE Marcy at Steam you'll see calm

1059
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:36,190
I'm very happy to talk about anything

1060
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:37,810
and everything from evolutionary biology

1061
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:40,570
to game design and we have lots of free

1062
00:48:45,540 --> 00:48:43,030
resources on the website in particular

1063
00:48:47,820 --> 00:48:45,550
for teachers aligning the game with

1064
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:47,830
standards both in Australia and in the

1065
00:48:52,110 --> 00:48:50,530
US and hopefully they're understandable

1066
00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:52,120
and applicable to other places as well

1067
00:48:57,960 --> 00:48:55,390
and there's a cool design your own app

1068
00:48:59,460 --> 00:48:57,970
that people can use to sort of explore

1069
00:49:01,320 --> 00:48:59,470
what the game is about and make their

1070
00:49:04,350 --> 00:49:01,330
own versions with Australian animals

1071
00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:04,360
very cool and then of course we have

1072
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:06,460
more information about the kind of our

1073
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:09,970
Edition as well and of course we can say

1074
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:13,810
that now as people are listening and

1075
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:15,520
they're finding this is fascinating

1076
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:17,740
fun as I am they can help out indeed

1077
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:19,450
there's a Kickstarter isn't there that's

1078
00:49:23,610 --> 00:49:22,090
right yeah we're we're both running the

1079
00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:23,620
Kickstarter Bailey's the lead on that

1080
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:28,180
and we're just a week in and very

1081
00:49:33,540 --> 00:49:29,920
exciting we're almost halfway there so

1082
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:33,550
we'd love if this if this game sounds of

1083
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:35,770
any interest we'd love you to support

1084
00:49:40,410 --> 00:49:38,290
and you can check it out on Kickstarter

1085
00:49:42,810 --> 00:49:40,420
that's great because I had a quick look

1086
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:42,820
myself and when you go there you can get

1087
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:44,530
a much better understanding of the game

1088
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:46,210
you can see the wonderful illustrations

1089
00:49:52,350 --> 00:49:48,880
how the board works the cards you can

1090
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:52,360
see Bailey and yourself so I suggest and

1091
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:54,310
everybody go and have a look at that

1092
00:49:57,930 --> 00:49:55,930
check it out for yourself I'll add a

1093
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:57,940
link to the Kickstarter folks in this

1094
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:00,160
week's show notes but my goodness me

1095
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:02,290
what a what a treat it's been for me to

1096
00:50:08,010 --> 00:50:05,730
chat to such two great minds on

1097
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:08,020
different sides of the planet working

1098
00:50:12,750 --> 00:50:09,970
together to create something to educate

1099
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:12,760
children so Bailey all the way over

1100
00:50:15,450 --> 00:50:14,050
there in the United States thank you

1101
00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:15,460
very much great to see you again

1102
00:50:26,670 --> 00:50:17,470
yeah thanks for having me it was very

1103
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:26,680
fun in Brisbane up there in Queensland

1104
00:50:29,310 --> 00:50:28,720
thank you thank you very much for this

1105
00:50:29,950 --> 00:50:29,320
opportunity

1106
00:50:48,290 --> 00:50:29,960
we appreciate it

1107
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:50,790
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1108
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:52,210
own podcast and thank you to those

1109
00:50:56,250 --> 00:50:54,730
people as ever who continue to support

1110
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:56,260
the skipping zone and those new people

1111
00:51:00,420 --> 00:50:57,970
who have just come on board to support

1112
00:51:03,930 --> 00:51:00,430
the sceptic zone via patreon or PayPal

1113
00:51:06,210 --> 00:51:03,940
you wouldn't believe the difference five

1114
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:06,220
dollars a month makes here at the

1115
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:08,770
sceptic zone and as I've mentioned

1116
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:12,160
before until things get back to normal

1117
00:51:17,490 --> 00:51:14,650
my other sources of income of sort of

1118
00:51:20,070 --> 00:51:17,500
that they're on holiday have gone

1119
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:20,080
they're having a rest my other sources

1120
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:22,330
of income so if it wasn't for the people

1121
00:51:28,220 --> 00:51:25,270
who support the sceptic zone I guess I'd

1122
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:28,230
be not doing the skeptics own anymore

1123
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:30,850
but yes five dollars a month from enough

1124
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:33,280
people of course makes a huge difference

1125
00:51:38,940 --> 00:51:35,920
so you can go to skeptic zone dot TV

1126
00:51:42,870 --> 00:51:38,950
have a look at the subscription link or

1127
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:42,880
the patreon PayPal link and it would be

1128
00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:47,050
very helpful for the show if more of you

1129
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:49,750
in fact would chip in for $5.00 a month

1130
00:51:54,420 --> 00:51:52,330
I don't think honestly I don't think

1131
00:51:56,940 --> 00:51:54,430
that's too much to ask if you enjoy the

1132
00:51:58,590 --> 00:51:56,950
show each week if it means something to

1133
00:52:01,650 --> 00:51:58,600
you if you get something out of it if it

1134
00:52:04,350 --> 00:52:01,660
helps you pass an hour every week or if

1135
00:52:06,270 --> 00:52:04,360
you learn something and I think the

1136
00:52:09,660 --> 00:52:06,280
skeptic Zone reporters and I will be

1137
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:09,670
doing another think tank online think

1138
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:11,410
tank probably in the next couple of

1139
00:52:14,910 --> 00:52:12,880
weeks I'll ask them if they can get

1140
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:14,920
together I had such a lot of fun doing

1141
00:52:22,260 --> 00:52:18,790
that a couple of weeks ago don't forget

1142
00:52:24,450 --> 00:52:22,270
to check out skeptics on TV in fact to

1143
00:52:28,020 --> 00:52:24,460
look at all the show notes for each

1144
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:28,030
episode that goes out including the time

1145
00:52:32,670 --> 00:52:30,640
code for every segment if you're

1146
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:32,680
interested in just one segment or

1147
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:34,000
another you can check out where those

1148
00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:35,890
time codes are go straight to that

1149
00:52:43,530 --> 00:52:39,160
segment and indeed if you're listening

1150
00:52:46,890 --> 00:52:43,540
to this on your iPhone you can just

1151
00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:46,900
click the time code link in the player

1152
00:52:54,690 --> 00:52:51,430
and also see the images change as each

1153
00:52:58,779 --> 00:52:54,700
segment changes isn't technology just

1154
00:53:00,819 --> 00:52:58,789
wonderful but for this week

1155
00:53:03,459 --> 00:53:00,829
talking into two microphones for a test

1156
00:53:06,039 --> 00:53:03,469
today this is Richard Saunders in the

1157
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:06,049
skeptics and studios signing off from

1158
00:53:15,130 --> 00:53:12,410
Sydney Australia you've been listening

1159
00:53:22,089 --> 00:53:15,140
to the skeptics zone podcast please

1160
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:22,099
visit our website at wwlp.com tax and to

1161
00:53:28,150 --> 00:53:24,079
access the back catalog of episodes

1162
00:53:30,089 --> 00:53:28,160
going back to 2008 you can follow the

1163
00:53:33,579 --> 00:53:30,099
skeptic zone podcast on twitter at

1164
00:53:36,969 --> 00:53:33,589
skeptic zone visit our facebook page or

1165
00:53:39,579 --> 00:53:36,979
leave a review on itunes you can also

1166
00:53:42,909 --> 00:53:39,589
support the skeptic zone via patreon or

1167
00:53:45,549 --> 00:53:42,919
PayPal the skeptic zone podcast is an

1168
00:53:47,380 --> 00:53:45,559
independent production the views and

1169
00:53:49,630 --> 00:53:47,390
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1170
00:53:52,179 --> 00:53:49,640
are not necessarily those of Australian

1171
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:52,189
skeptics or any other sceptical

1172
00:54:05,740 --> 00:53:53,110
organisation

1173
00:54:18,490 --> 00:54:10,210
and d-10 d-10 here's one that's a better

1174
00:54:21,430 --> 00:54:18,500
one it's a pretty why okay I always have

1175
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:21,440
to write them I sometimes I've done this

1176
00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:24,800
before recording myself and I get to the

1177
00:54:34,420 --> 00:54:31,720
yes folks joining me now at the end of

1178
00:54:35,740 --> 00:54:34,430
the show from near the beginning of the

1179
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:35,750
show it's Susan go back hello once again

1180
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,890
Susan you're gonna win this bit

1181
00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:44,480
different today it's the dice game folks

1182
00:54:48,190 --> 00:54:46,160
for those of you don't know sometimes

1183
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:48,200
after the music ends the show keeps

1184
00:54:54,250 --> 00:54:52,400
going we roll a die three times and well

1185
00:54:58,690 --> 00:54:54,260
you use your psychic or dumb luck

1186
00:55:00,190 --> 00:54:58,700
prediction predicting power to see if

1187
00:55:03,220 --> 00:55:00,200
you can guess what the numbers gonna be

1188
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:03,230
I'm gonna be using a d-10 this time

1189
00:55:07,330 --> 00:55:05,090
Susan and I'm gonna hold it up to the

1190
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:07,340
camera so you can verify for everybody

1191
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:11,450
look at that beautiful blue yeah but I'm

1192
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:14,000
going to roll it three times but I'm

1193
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:15,470
gonna roll it twice three times what I

1194
00:55:22,540 --> 00:55:18,830
mean is the numbers are going to be from

1195
00:55:25,540 --> 00:55:22,550
1 to 100 this time so I'm gonna roll the

1196
00:55:28,030 --> 00:55:25,550
first time it'll be the tens column so

1197
00:55:28,450 --> 00:55:28,040
to speak and the second will be the ones

1198
00:55:31,330 --> 00:55:28,460
column

1199
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:31,340
so Susan hmm what's your first

1200
00:55:43,660 --> 00:55:36,410
prediction you've got from 1 to 105

1201
00:55:50,980 --> 00:55:43,670
sure okay here we go the first roll for

1202
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:50,990
the tens column is oh it's a 9 so it's

1203
00:55:57,460 --> 00:55:53,570
going to be 90 something here we go

1204
00:56:02,170 --> 00:55:57,470
second roll 90

1205
00:56:04,570 --> 00:56:02,180
oh that's interesting 99 okay so that's

1206
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:04,580
the first numbers 99 gonna rattle it a

1207
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:10,490
lot let's rattle okay next guess 5

1208
00:56:21,010 --> 00:56:15,050
oh here we go first roll for the tens

1209
00:56:28,030 --> 00:56:21,020
column is a 7 mm second roll

1210
00:56:32,140 --> 00:56:28,040
so it's 74 is the second number 74

1211
00:56:34,810 --> 00:56:32,150
I'm us now it's time for me to use my

1212
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:34,820
psychic powers I think Susan's gonna

1213
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:41,570
predict five Susan five five here we go

1214
00:56:48,940 --> 00:56:43,730
first well for the tens column is and

1215
00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:48,950
five hasn't even come up yet first roll

1216
00:56:55,180 --> 00:56:52,580
is nine again it's interesting very high

1217
00:57:02,440 --> 00:56:55,190
numbers this time nine and the second

1218
00:57:14,829 --> 00:57:02,450
number is zero zero do come up so okay

1219
00:57:27,660 --> 00:57:14,839
so the numbers this week the winning

1220
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,670
numbers this week on 99 74 and 9005

1221
00:57:31,630 --> 00:57:29,839
somebody something clever listener out

1222
00:57:34,660 --> 00:57:31,640
there is going to figure out how to make

1223
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:34,670
all those numbers 5 will I do it one

1224
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:39,170
more time just for you ok what number do

1225
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:46,660
after a hard day's skepticism this is

1226
00:57:52,359 --> 00:57:48,710
quite fun here we go first number coming

1227
00:57:53,620 --> 00:57:52,369
up in the tens column ah I kid you not I

1228
00:57:59,650 --> 00:57:53,630
kid you not I'm gonna hold it up so you

1229
00:58:03,130 --> 00:57:59,660
can see it it's a 5 that's right it's

1230
00:58:10,420 --> 00:58:03,140
gonna be 50 well at least a 5 did come

1231
00:58:18,730 --> 00:58:10,430
up you know ok 50 55 hiding oh here we

1232
00:58:20,140 --> 00:58:18,740
go 5700 two away Thank You Susan

1233
00:58:23,260 --> 00:58:20,150
I never will

1234
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:23,270
I always play this game and I never win

1235
00:58:27,820 --> 00:58:25,250
but I guess I can't influence it because

1236
00:58:29,980 --> 00:58:27,830
of its already recorded when I'm

1237
00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:29,990
listening to it it is it's a bit strange

1238
00:58:34,210 --> 00:58:31,910
and that other noise you hear is

1239
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:34,220
Henrietta the cat at the office door

1240
00:58:38,830 --> 00:58:36,410
trying to break in maybe she wants to

1241
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:38,840
play the dice game I'm sure she would